I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. The strictest. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? The greatest commandments : love God with your whole self, love your neighbour as yourself. Important conversations, yes, but the Holy Spirit is the one that convicts and leads us into truth, not emotion, not anger, not verbal tirades. focusing on OUR being : This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. Thank you, and god bless each and Evey one of you. But to God? BURN. Mike Frost , the author of this article, has attested to the fact that he believes homosexual practice is sin as well. These guys are preaching or teaching heresy under the guise of being loving. Especially when theyre called out. Speaking of salvation, how does baptism fit into that? To them, the Scriptures are clear on this issue, and they think the rest of us are in error by treating Sunday like a Sabbath. Sunday, May 28, 2022 Ascension Day. Oh, THAT sin. Ahh yes. He gave one hard and fast litmus test: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. No, Jesus didnt specifically say armed robbery is wrong, but it harms your neighbor. Now on top of trying to figure out what the bible is saying (apart from the voices of all the teachers) I have to identify and correct all the non-biblical stuff I was taught. both the shelter and the solitude of silence with the eloquence of Colm Bairad's gently captivating Irish . Ive been reading it for many, many years. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? I dont know what it is that some of you have eaten but before commenting about a biblical issue perhaps it would serve you well to actually read the bible, brush up a little. Whoever marries her that is divorced is guilty of sex sins in marriage.. It has left me confused and weary. Well, thats logical enough. This is the right thing according to Matthew 18, a teaching emphasized in the intentional-community churches Ive been part of since reaching adulthood but not in the evangelical ones I grew up with. The Scriptures are very clear that predestination exists, yet there are millions of believers who dont believe in it. Prior to October of 2016 traditional Christian marriage was the Hatmakers official position. To understand Paul you *must* read Romans 1 and 2 as a single argument; after all, Romans 2 begins with Therefore. Questions: Because if it is sin, the only justification we are allowed as believers to practice is repentance and forgiveness through the cross and grace of Jesus. On her Instagram page, Hatmaker posted touching photos from Austin Pride Week, with the caption: "My beloved little church went downtown to the #AustinPrideParade and gave out Free Mom Hugs, Free Dad Hugs, Free Grana Hugs, and Free Pastor Hugs like it was our paying jobs. Maybe if someone doesnt want to be attacked for their seemingly unorthodox views, especially when one is a public figure, they should keep their views privately. Please state facts, not falsehoods about what the Bible does or does not say. Actually S. Tannous what Ben E. Calvert said is VERY biblical. Increasingly, 140 characters on twitter are used to express quite nuanced positions. I think most people on the other side do not want to intentionally be mean or attacking. It seems to be the only one you can quote here. Im so sick of the whole Christian hippie thing. Your email address will not be published. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person. Sin must be known as it is. What comes to mind for me in countering your view is Matthew 18:6-9. We cant receive grace from something we dont actually believe is a sin. In Mark 16, Jesus Himself says that His true followers will be able to hold deadly snakes and drink poison without harm. This nonsensical complaining of yours is unbecoming. Im going to respond to just your first sentence. With only a framework of religion, either The Right or The Left will show that broken Identity. People with a homosexual struggle who have homosexual relations are not ANY more sinful than me when I lust after a woman who isnt my wife or you when you harbor hate in your heart toward a neighbor. Not as burnt toast. The Scriptures are clear that believers of the Christian faith often speak in tongues. Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. And theyre not always wrong. Hair style and food choice, andso many other abominations are overlooked. View Event Website . Meets in the Community Center 512-789-3222. Youre right-I have to say that it is God saying it-its all over the Bible- I do agree with Mike, Surely, if you think a person is guilty of teaching or promoting heresy your primary motivation would be to want to correct that person and restore them to orthodox faith. Law and love are often in conflict. Because its not showing right now. But often we fail to see it when its practiced within our own communities. Timeline: About how a man and his wife, who is a man and woman, join together and become one flesh in a marriage covenant. [] (The link to the original blog is here.) We see it most clearly in closed communities like Scientology, or in cults like Jonestown or the Branch Davidians, or among fundamentalist churches like Westboro Baptist. Romans 1 is very very clear. To say that this was some kind of clue to the fact that people are born certain ways regarding homosexuality is twisting this verse. This IS great, Mike!! Homosexuality isnt the only sin there are other sins but since this is the topic here being discussed-Well church is for everyone-its for the sick not the well. I had never thought of that. He told the prostitute to sin no more. (Like you have pointed out, this isnt the first time something like this has gone down.) Thats why you lost another Millenial. []. Maybe then they could have seen how badly they were treating someone that was faithfully guiding a congregation that loved him dearly. JM changes his Facebook information to relay that he is no longer employed by the Free Methodist Church. BE GENEROUS. 6406 N I-35 Suite 3100 Austin, TX, 78752. Its in alignment with the word of God because Paul said teachers have harsher judgment, and Jesus said those who teach people to break moral law will be called least in the kingdom. Wednesday. Jesus wanted to create a stampede of animals out of the temple, and theres no reason to conclude he used the whip for any other purpose than this. Many of my charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak in tongues (some call it a prayer language) and swear by it. But if a person is a reviler someone who is rude, denigrates others, makes fun of them or tries to make them look small then we should keep away. In my view, heresy is anything that keeps someone from falling into the arms of Jesus and His grace. They dont view her as a sister. Shes toast in their eyes. And how could the writer possibly individually approach all Christians with a message he feels is important? 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. GET TO KNOW US. If she is teaching this heresy publicly, calling her out publicly is not only appropriate but necessary. Put me off the internet for awhile, Ill tell ya.). Where do you get that any sex outside your strict standard is disapproved of by God? Youre at church to get help for any kind of sin not just this one, not to have it smiled upon so that no one will be offended. But we have GRACE. Please read Chapter 33 of the esteemed Hebraist Joel Hoffmans The Bible Doesnt Say That, on Homosexuality. There wasnt any theological issues, no heresy. If so, how will you justify that to him? I thank God I am not a reformed sinner. The only concern I have about this is there is a difference in my view of confronting personal sin, or solving a personal conflict (which has a biblical process as to prevent gossip and slander); and confronting a public teaching. Or you dont believe its sin or are unsure, and you can practice theological justification that doesnt need the cross for this particular issue. Get off of youre throne bro, youre clueless. In our sins sexual and otherwise, God intervened! God allowed polygamy, rape victims being forced to marry their rapists, soldiers being allowed to keep women as spoils or war, brothers marrying sisters. Do you believe that the earth was created in six days? Seriously. Is this the only story out of the Bible that you know? And if we as a group stand together and say this we are wrong? The Hatmakers' congregation, Austin New Church, ultimately transferred from the Free Methodist Church, an evangelical denomination, to the United Methodist Church. New Releases THE QUIET GIRL. If you dont, how do you justify that? I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. During this time when many in the church are embracing a worldly view on sexuality and being influenced more by the opinions of the culture than by the Word of God, those who have the Word of God as a priority are genuinely concerned about syncretism in the church with Hollywood values and agenda. They believe that in order to be saved, you have to be baptizedits a requirement. It should NOT be saying sin is A-OK. Its good to know there are pious, uptightetc, uprightChristians who can boil everything down to a few self-informed talking points. LehrenDotCom. In January of 2018, after coming under the umbrella of the United Methodist Church, we were gifted our beautiful new campus in the heart of the 04. Mark 10:6-9 NKJV However, one thing Jesus never did was condone their sin. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. If so, arent you being terribly arrogant to say that you can have that but others cant? I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. But how about Jesus teaching, He who is without sin, cast the first stone? I believe the scriptures provide much more grace for a needy sinner including homosexuals. All your big words back there managed to give the vague impression that it was an actual denial of the Gospel. Of course homosexuality us wrong-its everywhere in the Bible. Marriage is defined by the song of creation in Genesis, bone of my bone, flesh of my flesh, man and woman. So hopefully nobody interprets my misgivings to this article as being a religious bigot. The festival welcomes and encourages artists from any discipline to join us in a week-long celebration of student-led performance. Self-justification in all its forms is the greatest affront to the gospel. http://bible.com/114/1co.5.10-13.nkjv. 2 Brandon and Jennifer Hatmaker got married in 1993 Credit: Instagram However, I am 100% sure its not sin, so I feel like I am doing nothing wrong and am not presenting an affront to the gospel. My PCA friends love John Calvin, Martin Luther, et al. Yes the 2nd chapter of Genesis is poetry. Its sometimes called the Doctrine of Election. Plain and simple. We wont argue anyone into Kingdom of God. If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. However, we should do so with respect and love to those who are in error. In like fashion, conservatives are trying to reason from Scripture why homosexual sex (as well as any sex outside of marriage, including LOOKING at another person with lust in your heart) is damnable sin but thanks be to God we are SAVED in CHRIST from it! These reflect ACTIONS of FAITH. The Body of Christ should do better than this! Im not trying to bait you or flame you or troll you or whatever. Earlier I mentioned the Presbyterians. Whatever that sin is, we have to turn. And did he lower the behavioral bar re sexual sin or raise it? And if so, do you ask them how they justify it? But this type of story appears just once in the Bible. Jesus did say those who are WITHOUT sin, cast the first stone. I believe Jesus did not say you may shame people if your sin is not worse than otherssin. Pics by Pauly Littrell) David I am so truly, deeply sorry to read your story. Jesus speaks out harshly against causing others to stumble rather than personal sin like in your examples. So if I am being loving, I am accepting and embracing all kinds of heresies and now truth is blasphemed. What does he know? Great food for thought. I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? And God HATES divorce. Its just so obvious that the creator God made man for man. If you think the person is sinning, that is something to engage privately. It all matters, but, just sayin Repentance is a core gospel issue. If you come to faith in a Church of Christ service, they will often baptize you on the spot, lest you die in a car wreck on the way home and go to hell. Then someone should have told that little catchphrase to Jesus when he chased people with a whip and turned over tables. Good question. 1,832 were here. Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys . But He didnt. Its crazy to speculate what Jesus would or would not approve of if he didnt specifically speak about it. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person Approach them directly; raise your concerns respectfully; where appropriate and reasonable, invite a third party into the discussion. I cant imagine how this approach would lead a person down the wrong path. . Lets all do our best to avoid generalities. Huge fan of the underdog. Is BH on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? Correction to above: That is, as one man and one woman? Should have read That is, as being expressed fully in marriage between one man and one woman?. Any affront to the gospel is heresy. When criticism comes lazily through gossip and public media it makes all Christians look like tools (angry, thoughtless, disrespectful, impatient people). But we cant condone sin. So where does same-sex marriage fall on this? I do. Hi Mike, whilst there is much you write I disagree with, your comment here is excellent. I will simply READ MY BIBLE. Where did Jesus say anything about polluting the environment, or armed robbery? . I dont think so. Or are you making the point that its ok to be harsh because of Jesus example at the temple? There is a lot of 'behind-the-scenes' drama happening ahead of the 2023 Oscars as Riley Keough and Priscilla Presley are entangled in a legal battle. Its not biblical. BUILD COMMUNITY. Specialties: Our dream is to have an increasingly positive impact on the South Austin Community. Holy, sacred space I thought I had healed, I thought I was coping well with sexism in my world. Communion Service and Homeless Community Grillout (Music by Miranda Dodson. Stop making excuses. May we always err on the side of communication, love, respect, etc and not get caught up in the polarizing world of binary options of your evil, Im good. When we do, we just contribute to the brokenness of the world, and Jesus continues to weep over our pettiness. We have to die to our sin, our own desires and live for Christ. My salvation experience was not based on my status as a repentant sinner. Be and example yourself, I think you should read the Bible: Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. No opposing historical views included. After working with them through many meetings, lunches, and doing everything I could for over six months, they did exactly what you said in your article, they created their posses, spread rumors about me, my wife, and undermined the leadership of my entire staff. church and others. I begged these people to stop and shared with them how it was affecting me and my staff. Is that a strict standard? An to be a Christ followed we have to die to our sin and live for Christ. How do you justify that? Man, the irony. The couple split in August 2020 after several years of marriage. We have to assume that means its a really big deal. If your deal is to call anyone with differing theological opinions a heretic Im not guessing its something I can change, but as a close friend of Jens I find a lot of this commentary nothing like the Jesus I love and serve alongside Jen. Through my pain, I am in such a better place, but honestly my wounds still seep and Im still licking them toward wholeness. Of course not! There are many of us in the Body that once were insiders that are no longer. Frank, I have great difficulty taking seriously anything said by someone who refers to an eternal truth from the Bible. The whole account shows Jesus mercy for sinners, certainly not a model for punishing the sinner. Thank you for sharing your story and heartache. Be assured that you were persecuted for all the right reasons and God had control of the outcome! I did not come to bring peace but a sword. Why because no where in the Bible does it say it is okay. This is not the Jesus I know, the Jesus who ate with notorious sinners and scandalized the religious as a result. Those old theologians were big on grace and were vehement defenders of the idea that we acquire salvation by Gods grace alone, not by works (I agree with this). I think that response is spot on Mike. I also smoke pipes and cigars occasionally, I feel the same way with this as well. Ive found that people who define things outside of the bigger community of the global Church, through the centuries, have too narrow opinions on Jesus and Pauls teachings. This is not about Trump. thanks, Yes, and you should NEVER chase them with a whip. We need a new class in seminary and Bible schools: Communication 102 Using public media wisely examples from the Gospels and the Epistles. Jesus didnt die for the sins of the world so we could allow people to keep sinning. Maybe pull your head out of your ass and realize that God would rather see people happy than have a tenth of the population relegated to loneliness and eventual rebellion against God. I have. ConcernedMeasuring.Locating A church that brought me to Christ for the first time in my life, helped my family know and love God, led by a truly honest, good man, just vanished. Its Farewell, Jen Hatmaker, Offender #11328. Hey, Im not saying conservative evangelicalism is as bad as Jonestown, but I do know this: once the pack starts circling an identified victim theres very little stopping it. I know that my Jesus has chosen and includes me. A church plant in 2008, our church has been nomads in a myriad of locations in the South Austin area. I think Christians should focus on being right about loving each other rather than who is correct about each others sins. Your response: It IS a Gospel issue! Tuesday. So there is no middle ground here. JM: Jason Morriss, primary teaching pastor and elder at ANC, employed by the Free Methodist Church to serve at ANC since 2013, previously of Joel Osteens Lakewood Church in Houston Isnt it interesting, the things that indicate when we should keep away from a sinful brother or sister. We have to look at all the Bible to draw our conclusions. One is the leaven of the Pharisees, one is the leaven of the Herodians, both are an affront to the gospel. Are you who create these arguments so entrenched in your open orthodoxy unable to see the futility of a man-made salvation where there isnt such a thing as sin, and therefore no need for a Savior from sin? Frost presumed some sort of good will in the likes of Hatmakers condemners. Jesus is in charge of me. I am so tried WITH Vicky of the implication that those that support same-sex marriage are not serious about the Word of God. Please let me clarify something I just wrote above: Yes, homosexuals as well as anyone else should be allowed-ENCOURAGED-to attend church for the reasons above-to repent and get help, whatever the sin is, not just homosexuality. This story is similar in human history bully and stifle and corner disparate voices, rewrite the narrative to fit your position. Did Jesus condemn homosexualituy? I know it is Leviticus but that is the o my thing from ?Leviticus we hear about. Forgive. She and her husband planted Austin New Church in an economically and ethnically diverse . Austin Miniatures Western Church Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD. We should know by now what Gods word is. I am so tired of the implication that someone who supports same-sex marriage (or any other cultural buzz issue) is not serious about the Word of God. (Take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount if youre puzzled.) http://bible.com/114/mrk.10.6-9.nkjv. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. We see thru a glass darkly, weve all got mud in our eyes.that only Jesus can remove. Paul had no qualms about naming names and confronting false doctrines and false apostles by name in his letters. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I am sorry read your bible! Even our own. Constricting.Simulating.Seekin Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Austin Miniatures Western Hotel Saloon 2 story Wild West Cowboys Conte Marx TSSD at the best online prices at eBay! 19:12). Thanks evangelical Christianity. Well, the opposite. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. Burnt toast actually. Shes a blogger. The bible says that if your brother (or sister) has wronged you, you should talk to them first. Have you noticed hardly anyone at your church sings the congregational songs anymore? But according to Bibles self-described marriage covenant, they are not marriage. They are the most miserable of companions. I normally see this belief system among my fellow women and with weak men. Just like many other sins, of course. Praise God David that He never left your side and He indeed had a better place for you. Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? And you know I respect you, right? the spirit of the world is dark, indeed. Im not arrogant-Im just trying to be obedient. Step back and have some one on one time with God because.let he who has no sin cast the first stone and when people do this and run her down you are TURNING PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD!!! Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. It uses the term error for all other deviations. Not someones opinion who, based on the limited comments on this post, appear to be more than a little arrogant. Start treating your sisters and brothers like sisters and brothers. This is a quote from the article. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. The views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent the official views of Morling College or its affiliates and partners. But I dont wish on my worst enemy the pain that I, my family, Rob Bell, McLaren, or Jen Hatmaker have gone through. Wilshire Baptist Church, a Dallas-area congregation, voted in 2016 to extend full membership to homosexually active people, including leadership ordination and marriage officiation. This is blasphemy pure and simple, to say they felt told this. $99.99 + $18.10 shipping. So, what does healthy religion look like? Theres a point to this but its not happening the right way. Austin New Church (ANC) Back to Meetings. Yes, thank you. There is nothing more frightening to a human being (and this time I say this from personal offline experience) than the sense that the community is turning on them. Whether you're an old member or visiting for the first time we want you to know you that ALL are welcome at the Congregational Church of Austin. No, Jesus didnt specifically say its wrong to deliberately injure yourself, but you cant love your neighbor if you dont love yourself. If a sweet grandmother comes walking out of church and I kick her in the shins, she will probably react. November 1: BH affirms his JHs position on FB. Then yes, to say an act is not a sin (that really is) is saying we dont need Jesus to wash away that sin. And just for reference, you cited Matthew 21:12 which you claimed to read again. Please, let me say that back to you and you tell me if thats what you said. In empathy with both the Pro & Anti rhetoric about Personalities in Leadership, this smacks a bit of ideological differences of political alignment. Ive had to distance myself from several in the Christian community where I live following character assassination and some harassment. Frankly, I've always taken my son to Target in his Batman costume and let my daughter wear a leotard and boots to church. Thats the theological belief that God predestines some for heaven and some for hell. It does not hurt me or my neighbor, and I dont believe that love is a sin against God. LOCATION | The 04 Center 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 . Its a difficult place to beI feel like Im losing my home. And wall building and ceremonial ejections are classic signs of unhealthy religion. Were elders allowed to fulfill their roles as decision makers for ANC as outlined in Acts 15:1-2, or were those who disagreed with the change in position asked or encouraged to leave? For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? State desire to remain in a tension on the issue, however, no opposing historical views are presented, and most if not all elders holding to traditional views have left ANC since the interview. This teacher is teaching that homosexual sin can be justified through theological self-justification rather than through repentance and forgiveness through the cross. May we proclaim the Gospel boldly and may we love with our lives those around us. And discribes a very good process. The couple founded the Austin, Texas, based church along with Legacy Collective, a community foundation aiming to find sustainable housing, prevent child trafficking and provide health care. It will teach and encourage the practice of wisdom and holiness: finding our happiness and fulfilment is about coming to a right understanding of who we are, and what it means to be mature human being in terms of vulnerability as well as potential. 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