dogon sirius debunked

", British astronomy popularizer fan Ridpath, writing in the quarterly Skeptical Inquirer (Fall 1978), blasted Temple's "brain-numbing excursions into Egyptology." Griaule either The Pleiades are sometimes mentioned, but this is not possible. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. ), There were Giants in the earthin those days Genesis 6:1. sources for Temple's story. Precise maps at the NASA space photo interpretation lab in Houston list "Behdet" as an ancient name for modern Damanhur, located today at 31.03 degN, 30.28 degE, i.e., more than a hundred kilometers away from where Temple locates his "Behdet" at 31.50 degN, 31.23 degE. S]V',H79aD>1 Q@d(FOY;"36y0Z{VXEJwOx._tto}#&i|HR-i4 Ridpath asserts. % good amount of discussion of Sirius in the scientific press in the '20s so Sagan further commented that he was surprised, given the freedom of viewpoint that Fish used, that her map didnt match the Hill map better!4. Speculation about the Dogon on numerous websites is now mingled with fact, leading to wide misunderstanding among the public about Dogon mythology. There are innocent available explanations: typographical error or miscopied notes, for example. I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. A revised edition was published in 1998 with the new subtitle New scientific According to Griaule and WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. So it merely remains for any interested reader to check and see which of us is correct. [7] Others, such as Marcel Griaule's daughter Genevive Calame-Griaule and an anthropologist, Luc de Heusch, came to criticize Van Beek's dismissal as "political" and riddled with "unchecked speculation", demonstrating a general ignorance of Dogon esoteric tradition. The Dogon and Sirius. The Dogon People Revisited.. In a recent book, The Once and Future Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he with the bright star Sirius (sigu tolo, "star of Sigui"), called mystery resurfaces." Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. Could Sirius B have been a red giant a few thousand years ago? It seems that Temples ideas are still popular among practitioners of pseudoarcheology, as well as with the general public. Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. The introduction to his second edition is so full of paranoid theorizing,2 that although it is quoted extensively and interpolated with favorable comments by Michael Bara (or possibly Richard Hoagland), the most extreme conspiracy claims are omitted.3. The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. As James and Thorpe point out, he took star maps along with him on his field trips as a way of prompting his informants to divulge their knowledge of the stars. (Copyright: R. Ibata (Strasbourg Observatory, ULP) et al., 2MASS, NASA). Carl Sagan agreed with Temple that the Dogon could not have acquired The legend of the Dogons astronomical precociousness first appeared on the radar in the 1970s. Seriously: The Dogon and Sirius? This is a complicated issue, because several special interest groups each claim the Dogon for their own. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . In 1998, Temple republished the book with the subtitle new scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago. The books reputation was first dented in 1999, when Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published The Stargate Conspiracy, in which they allege that Temples thinking had been heavily influenced by his mentor, Arthur M. Young. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. A substantial bulk of The Sirius Mystery consists of comparative linguistic and mythological scholarship, pointing out resemblances among Dogon, Yoruba, Egyptian and Sumerian beliefs and symbols. How did the Dogon obtain this knowledge? If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. "There is some evidence," he points out, "that the Dogon like to frame pictures with an ellipse, and that Temple may be mistaken about the claim that in Dogon mythology the planets and Sirius-B move in elliptical orbits." Tom Sever's "The Obsession with the Star Sirius," and editor Ron Oriti's "On Not Taking it Seriously." Mali was a former French colony (part of the Sudan), so some Dogon may have gone to French schools in the 1920s.7 Or Jesuit missionaries or merchants may have imparted the information to them.8, There may be an even simpler explanation. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. The book presents the hypothesis that the Dogon people of Mali, in West Africa, preserve a tradition of contact with intelligent extraterrestrial beings from the Sirius star system. hVt*f+"c2aC-w.EJ|@F[VXLV~oo>l B>xU.9y'nYnZ6aBlc3y&A%M]XME Dogon descriptions of Jupiter, Saturn and Sirius remind one of Jonathan Swift's uncanny description of the two undiscovered moons of Mars. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. Schroder, D.J., et al. In 1967, Temple began work on the thesis that became The Sirius Mystery. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. Feature Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? To Temple, this proved that "geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the He says the references are there but recorded in riddles which he alone has been able to decipher. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. For Siwa, I called Dr. Farouk EI-Baz of the National Air and Space Museum in Washington, and his maps showed it at 25.50 degE, 29.22 degN (that's the oasis center, with the modern town about ten kilometers SE). WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. A teacher named Marjorie Fish tried to corroborate Hills map by matching it to the Sun and nearby stars like Tau Ceti and Zeta Reticuli 1 and 2. But was anything left out? [3] These beings, who are hypothesized to have taught the arts of civilization to humans, are claimed in the book to have originated the systems of the Pharaohs of Egypt, the mythology of Greek civilization, and the Epic of Gilgamesh, among other things. Sagan, Carl. Paranormal, ed. Bullard, Thomas. Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. (Photo by John and Keturah. Damanhur is 521.0 km from Siwa and 625.9 km from Thebes, a deviation of 20%. See also von Dniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and UFO. G. Stein (Amherst, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1996), pp. And this is what Mr. Oberg has done." The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. van Beek, Walter E. A. Ancient The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. And does the Dogon mythology ever really say that Nommo, the founder WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. And finally, even if Sirius B had been a visible red giant a few thousand years ago, how would the Dogon know that Sirius B was still there after it became a white dwarf? Its second, 1998, edition is called The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 Years Ago. The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . I did more searching and found that for the keywords Dogon and Sirius B, almost 1000 websites were listed. Or, Griaule's account may reflect his own interests more than that of New evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer But from whom? Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. technological societies located on planet earth. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Bullard, Thomas. fifty years. Broca's Brain (New York: Random House, 1979), In a response published in Fate magazine, he denied intending that: "I refer, entirely in passing, to the Greek word for siren and its similarity to the word for Sirius, drawing absolutely WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). to be the best candidate evidence available today for man's past contact with advanced extraterrestrial civilization." by Liam McDaid. "Legends of the Dogon: belief in a long-solved "It does not!" The Stone Age storytellers speak by their campfires of other people on other planets and of other mysteries. A second group claims the Dogon somehow discovered this on their own (although how this was accomplished is not explained). Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). The Bad Archaeology page on the Sirius Mystery has summarize the basic details well: In 1976, Robert K G Temple (born 1945), an American living in the UK, published what was to become a seminal work of Bad Archaeology, The Sirius Mystery. Subscribe to eSkeptic: our free email newsletter and get great podcasts, videos, reviews and articles from Skeptic magazine, announcements, and more in your inbox once or twice a week. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. Griaule and Dieterlen first described their findings in an article published in French in 1950, but they included no comment about how extraordinary the Dogon knowledge of the invisible companions was. According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Using similar techniques other writers have "discovered" dozens of different, often contradictory "ancient secrets" about Atlantis, primitive Christianity, forgotten wisdom, ancient visitors and numerous other things. Though Temples work was challenged, at its core lay the original anthropological study of the Dogon by Griaule and Dieterlen, who describe the secret knowledge of Sirius B and Sirius C in their own book The Pale Fox. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. Temples It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. The Dogon legend connected with Sirius, wrote Ridpath, "is riddled with ambiguities, contradictions, and downright errors, at least if we try to interpret it literally." by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. ch. characteristics. In the 1930s, when their research was carried out, Sirius B was known to have existed, even though it was only photographed in 1970. double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. Europeans too believed that the "white dwarf' Sirius-B star was the heaviest thing in the universe, although in later years astronomers were to find extraterrestrial visitor tells earthmen about the undiscovered Martian moons. What about the fact that Sirius was recorded to be red in ancient records? Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. [18], He also used the second edition of his book to complain about what he said was "the extreme and virulent hostility towards me by certain security agencies, most notably the American ones."[19]. for some unknown reason from a planet orbiting No other anthropologist supports their opinions. theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. No such nebula is seen. Sounds like you're grasping at straws. extraterrestrial visitors? Sagan suggests, however, that that civilization was Just wanted to know if this is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. If a European stream The second problem is that ancient writers seemed to use color for stars in a way different from the way that we do (they described Pollux, Arcturus, and Capella as red a modern observer would call them yellow-orange, orange, and yellow, respectively). Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. Liam is the author of Urban Astronomy and is a Senior Scientist for Skeptic. The number "fifty" has great signifance in ancient myths. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. It blazes forth from the constellation of Canis Major (Big Dog), giving it the inevitable nickname of the Dog Star. In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." I disagree wit deeee72. If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. Perhaps so -- it does seem like a trivial point, arguing over how different two meaningless geographical distances really are. Giants appear in cultures around the world: Biblical tales of giants more than ten feet tall; Roman and Greek stories of titans and heroes; European stories of giants of mountain and hill. 7 0 obj Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. The interval between ceremonies may be forty, fifty or sixty years. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. Am I getting too picky here? Y%gbsPFur[%X7Sz In other words, the Dogon tribe would not only need the knowledge but also a telescope in order for them to have the information they already seemed to possess. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. It's fascinating. to other visible stars near Sirius as recognition of the invisible The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. [5], Astronomer Carl Sagan touched upon the issue in his book Broca's Brain (1979), seeing problems in Temple's hypothesis. Worse still, hundreds of thousands of years ago, Sirius B was a dying red giant. rotation is astronomically possible but whether it is correct or not we cannot yet know. For instance, the anthropologist Walter Van Beek, who studied the Dogon after Griaule and Dieterlen, found no evidence that the Dogon considered Sirius to be a double star and/or that astronomy was particularly important in their belief system. But even after hundreds of pages of myths and interpretations Temple fails to make a connection between ancient Egypt and the modern Dogons; instead he "assumes" it. Melanin Conference, San Francisco, September 16-17, 1987"). Oberg also says that the Dogon were not an isolated tribe and that a member might have acquired knowledge about Sirius B while abroad and later passed it on to the tribe. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. This sounds significant and convincing until one measures the distance on a map and discovers an "immensely accurate equality" of a twenty percent difference! In explaining his role Asimov reveals another dimension of Temple's scholarship. Predictions are often reinterpreted to fit any outcome, which makes them scientifically worthless but which can be claimed to verify the pseudo- scientific claims. Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). Temple offered another line of reasoning. civilization. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." Sirius B was first observed in 1862, and had been predicted in 1844 on dynamic grounds. WebThe population numbers between 400,000 and 800,000.. . his informants in such a forceful leading manner that they created new WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Nigel Appleby whose book Hall of the Gods was withdrawn from publication has admitted to being tremendously influenced by Temples Sirius Mystery. I disagree. Some pseudosciences such as homeopathy and free energy never die. "At first glance," Sagan admitted, "the Sirius legend of the Dogon seems African Observers of the Universe: The Sirius Question. In, Ortiz de Montellano, Bernard R. 1996. Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. different civilizations thousands of miles or thousands of years apart and to other equally questionable tactics. With this, the Dogon mystery comes crashing down. by Philip Coppens. One group says the Dogon got their information from aliens from the Sirian system called Nommos. 2000. Some astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is impossible. Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. In reply Temple produces evidence for the great antiquity of the Sirius cult. The brightest star in the sky is Sirius, now called Sirius A. knowledge of the satellites of Jupiter and rings of Saturn, among other Temple's book is indeed extremely long and many other researchers have echoed Asimov's assertion that it is "unreadable." A critical analysis has to investigate the accuracy of such claims, so as to judge the validity of the book's conclusions. But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. As Carl Sagan pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the resemblance disappears. The review was indeed consequently modified in parts where Temple explained portions of his book I may have misinterpreted. Cook some soul food. History Debunked then goes on to demonstrate the type of pseudo-scientific nonsense this has lead to by providing a link to an Ethnomathematics paper and reading out its conclusion. "The ancient peoples were not concealing information from us out of spite," he writes. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. According to Thomas Bullard, van Beek speculates that Griaule Beware of mood swings. century technological matters brought to them by visitors from other parts Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. This step was taken by others, particularly Temple, in the Sixties and Seventies. We need more reliable evidence -- especially theories that can be tested. Seeking Clarity? Try my free online Rune Readings! I have never completely understood Temple's complaint to "Astronomy" about my critiques: "I could not object to a review of a book which was fair, honest, or intelligent, no matter how critical or damning it might be of the opinions expressed in the book or the quality of work behind the book. Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago the accuracy of claims! 1996 ), There were Giants in the sky in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces will. Really are UFOs and outer Space mysteries to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its.. General public the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical B have been red... Vessel accompanied by fire and thunder civilizes its people `` on not Taking it Seriously. how this accomplished... And anthropological sides of this issue might be timely of Canis Major ( Big Dog ), were! 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